marijuana and TCM

topic posted Fri, June 2, 2006 - 2:13 PM by  nux
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so, i have heard that habitual marijuana use harms the kidneys...my tke is that it damages the lung which depletes the kidney energy...i am wondering if anyone has any more detailed info on this, maybe a good link? google is not much help, and i know there is info out there.
posted by:
nux
offline nux
Portland
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  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Fri, June 2, 2006 - 3:25 PM
    I love marijuana and I dont really care what it does to my body, cause my body is already gone. Marijuana is the best pain/anti anxiety medication.
  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Sat, June 3, 2006 - 9:06 AM
    the only source that I have ver seen on this is in one of Wolfe Lowenthals books on Tai Chi Master Cheng Man Ching who stated the same thing...
  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Mon, June 5, 2006 - 6:26 PM
    My teacher says marijuana generates tons of damp heat, especially in the head.
    • Re: marijuana and TCM

      Mon, June 5, 2006 - 6:34 PM
      god, damp heat! argh! i don't smoke weed but i sure wish i knew how to deal with my own damp heat, it's getting worse....bleh. any tips on balancing out internal heat with external damp? possible external pernicious influence aggravating, cat allergies and other stuff like air conditioning (hate it!).
      • Re: marijuana and TCM

        Tue, June 6, 2006 - 8:46 AM
        do you see an acupuncturist? they could prob'ly give you some good herbs. along with that, diet is a good approach - cut out foods that produce dampness. . .
        • Re: marijuana and TCM

          Tue, June 6, 2006 - 9:38 AM
          yes, i see an acupuncturist, and i watch my diet very carefully. eating heat foods doesn't help much because then i just have aggaraveated internal heat. i need to balance my internal heat with my external damp.
          • Re: marijuana and TCM

            Tue, June 6, 2006 - 11:45 AM
            so where is this internal heat? Alll depending on where is, different herbs can be given to cool it down. Likewise for the external dampness...
            • Re: marijuana and TCM

              Tue, June 6, 2006 - 4:16 PM
              wow jon...thanks! ton of good info on that. wax as poetical as you like, acupuncture began as a spiritual as well as physical (no seperation) practice, and i am all about reconnecting with the poetry of it. :)

              justin, my heat is currently manifesting as heavy flow during menses w/clotting, bright red blood (this could be from taking osha for a week before my cycle, trying to move out spleen stagnation), which is *not* normal for me, i generally have no cramps, one day of moderate bleeding in between 2 days of minor bleeding. i chalk this up to the osha, BUT i was also treated with super yang herbs for 3 months to jump start a hypothyroid (though i am on correct med dosage for it, we were trying to heal it) which included aconite.

              if i take fresh dandelion or other heat-clearing herbs, i get exhausted and have to sleep about 12-14 hours, daytime naps, serious lethargy. i tend to overweight, but have very soft, clear skin (i have a GREAT diet, take supps, all organic, etc.) i do have scalloping on my tounge, with red on the body.

              my whole picture is really complicated. i wish i could find someone to peg it right the first time and treat it correctly!
  • jon
    jon
    offline 6

    Re: marijuana and TCM

    Tue, June 6, 2006 - 12:00 PM
    Damp combined with heat -- whether it be deficient heat or excess heat is some of the hardest pathogen to expel from the body. And I agree with the previous posts that in my clinical experience Marajuana created damp heat in the body. The reason why damp heat is so noxious is that it often locates itself in the lower dantian. The lower dantian is the place where we all create our empowerment. Have you ever made for example cream of wheat -- when you initially start it is just water and the wheat. As you cook it longer and longer, it becomes less and less fluid and more and more dense, until eventually either it becomes impossible to stir or you burn the cream of wheat. This is what is happening in your dantian when you smoke marajuana. Initially it is not a problem, but the longer you smoke, the more damp heat you create, until eventually it becomes very difficult to access your personal power that is stored in your dantian, because you have cooked cream of wheat blocking all of your channels and collaterals.
    So the original question then was that you heard that it harms the Kidneys [Qi]. I put Qi in because for someone that has smoked less then ten years this will be where the damage begins -- at the Qi level. It could eventually move to either the Yin or Yang level, but that is another discussion. Going back to my analogy above, if the damp heat cuts you off from your dan tian, and your dan tian is where you store all of your energy, then you can see how it would damage your Kidneys which are the holders of the primordial essence within the body in Chinese Medicine. Unfortunately, this strema of thought i svery interlaced with pre heaven qi and post heaven qi and how the energy is created for the here and now, but instead of waxing poetic on this subject -- it does affect the Kidney.
  • tim
    tim
    offline 0

    Re: marijuana and TCM

    Tue, June 6, 2006 - 7:09 PM
    smoking pot habitually effects the kidneys and the liver, primarily liver yang and both kidney yin and yang. i learned that people who smoke pot longterm develop pulse qualities similar to those with liver cancer.

    and of course, it effects the lungs and the heart as well...
  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Fri, July 28, 2006 - 6:34 PM
    This thread has been informative, but I think there is an important point that has been missed. "Marijuana use" and "smoking marijuana" are not the same thing. Marijuana may also be eaten in various forms, though this is far less common. The effects of taking smoke into the lungs are obviously detrimental, but that is something separate from the energetic properties of the herb itself. Can anybody address this?
    • Re: marijuana and TCM

      Mon, July 31, 2006 - 5:49 PM
      I have suggested to some patients who are habitual users and not about to change, that they get a vaporizer which does not aggravate the lungs as much. Eating it does not work for some people, but sometimes a tincture will work for them.
      I have seen (and heard) about how differently it affects the body with age. Possibly due to the damp effect...? I find it very interesting how it will energize some people while making others sleepy or lethargic.
    • Re: marijuana and TCM

      Wed, August 2, 2006 - 3:42 PM
      Most of what is written in the old herbals is about eating and drinking it. There are some uses as incense, but these were in a more spiritual/religious context than a medical one (although they are clearly related).
      Many modern TCM herbalists consider that it moves qi and blood, and could eventually deplete both (hence the warnings about Kidney qi and possibly jing). Smoking of course can harm Lung yin. Smoking in Asia (outside of incense) came about largely after the discovery of the Americas and tobacco.
      Here are some details on medical and other uses of hemp in Chinese history from:

      www.rexresearch.com/hhist/hhist1~1.htm

      ... Chinese alchemists performed rituals to prepare for their experiments, especially with cinnabar. One such rite was a solemn dance titled "Method of Steaming Hemp according to Su Nu". The 6th century Taoist collection Wu Shang Pi Yao (Essentials of the Matchless Books) states that alchemists added hemp to their incense.

      ....Ma also figured in the early development of medicine. The great physician Hua Tuo (141-208 AD) formulated ma-yo (hemp wine) and ma-fei-san ("hemp boiling powder") with cannabis and aconite for use as an anaesthetic for the surgeries he performed. (Ref.16)

      ... The oldest pharmacopia in existence, the Pen-Ts'ao Ching (ca. 100 BC) was compiled from ancient fragments attributed to the legendary Emperor Shen-Nung (ca. 2300 BC). The book mentions that "hemp grows along rivers and valleys at T'ai-shan, but it is now common everywhere." Mount T'ai (Shantung province) is one of the oldest locations where hemp was grown in historical times. The book also mentions ma-pho, a term that means a sudden change of mood, such as intoxication. At the same time the word can be explained as dehisence, the sudden blooming of male hemp. The ancient Chinese naturally discovered the medicinal and psychic properties of the resinous bracts, which they called ma-fen. Another find from the Eastern Chou dynasty (Shansi province) contained several hundred pieces of jade and stone "oath documents" with red inscriptions that mention ma with the character for "negative" attached to it. This suggests that the undignified psychoactive effect of the plant was well known to them. (8, 9)

      ... Emperor Shen Nung, classifies ma as both yin (female, chu-ma) and yang (male, i-ma). He advises that the Chinese cultivate only the female plant because it provides more of the medicinal virtue, which he prescribed for mental weakness, menstrual problems, constipation, gout, rheumatism, beri-beri and malaria. He also classified chu-ma as one of the Superior Elixirs of Immortality. A late edition of the Pen Ts'ao adds this note:

      ... "To take much makes people see demons and throw themselves about like maniacs. But if one takes it over a long period of time one can communicate with the spirits, gain insight, and one's body becomes light."

      The majority of Chinese people, however, were under the sobering influence of Taoist and Confucian religions and considered such a state of intoxication to be shameful. The shamanic use of Cannabis fell into neglect while the more tranquil opium rose in favor instead. Traditional Chinese medicine uses the Mung bean (Semen Phaseoli radiatus) as an antidote for cannabis intoxication.(17)

      Historian Joseph Needham attributes the establishment of Mount Shao as the first center of Taoist practice (ca. 350 AD) in part to the use of cannabis by the sage Yang Hsi; he enjoyed a series of visions of Lady Wei, the Mao brothers, and other members of the pantheon who transmitted sacred texts through him. (8)

      (8) Needham, Joseph: Science and Civilization; 1976, Cambridge University Press.
      (9) Li, Hui-Lin: Economic Botany 28: 437-448 (Oct-Dec 1974)
      (17) Yanchi, Lui: The Essential Book of Traditional Chinese Medicine, vol. 2; 1998, Columbia Univ. Press; ISBN 0-231-06518-3.
      • Re: marijuana and TCM

        Thu, August 3, 2006 - 9:36 AM
        Thanks for the information!

        .. "To take much makes people see demons and throw themselves about like maniacs. But if one takes it over a long period of time one can communicate with the spirits, gain insight, and one's body becomes light."

        The common problem, aside from the method of smoking, that I see in many users is the tendency to use copious amounts. I don't think there is much additional psychic potential in acute medium-large doses and its effects are obviously more deleterious at such amounts. The "just a little more and I'll get there" attitude can be problematic in recreational and spiritual users alike. It is rather similar with alcohol in that respect: small amounts can be therapeutic, excess is destructive.

        I do think when used appropriately it heightens the Shen in profound ways, thus I can understand the prescription for mental weakness. In Daoist internal alchemy, one of the goals is to nourish Jing and produce Qi, and refine Qi to raise Shen. Shen then is able to effectively regulate Qi. I think that Marijuana may cause a "premature" raising of Shen, which could be taxing on Qi and Jing when done excessively, hence warnings about Kidney depletion. In small amounts it can be helpful though, as it definitely can move Qi, and the altering of Shen makes one very aware of a variety of energetic and psychic factors at work in the body.

        In short, I think that the Pen T'sao's advice is right on. :)
  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Thu, May 3, 2007 - 9:44 AM
    There is a new book (2007) written by a former drug addict named Jost Sauer, who is now an acupuncturist in Australia. He specializes in drug addiction and in recovery from drug use based on his experience and his research/practice in TCM. The book is called "HIGHER AND HIGHER; from drugs and destruction to spirituality." He discusses all of the energetic effects of using different drugs and explains the effects of each drug on the Zang Fu/organs as well as the five elements. He also has about 20 free articles you can read on his website. It's all great reading and very enlightening. According to Jost, marijuana primarily effects the liver, although with any long term drug use the energy imbalances in the body lead to Jing (Kidney) being depleted. Check out his article called "Marijuana and the myth of the Harmless Drug" and also..."How to quit Marijuana" on his website under "articles." The book goes beyond the articles in terms of depth.
    • Joe
      Joe
      offline 0

      Re: marijuana and TCM

      Thu, July 9, 2009 - 6:07 PM
      Let's not forget this idiot has an article on his page which advices parents that they should NOT talk to their children about drugs.

      He ALSO states "marijuana is an hallucinogenic drug but a mild one (or it was at least before hydro dope)." Anyone who uses the word "hydro dope" should be banned from discussing drugs. Where do I begin? Dope refers to heroin, and is not associated with marijuana. Hydro dope isn't even a word. The problem goes on and on.

      He insinuates that weed is what led him to his speed addiction. Simply not true. I can't take anyone seriously when they don't blame themselves for their down falls. It looks like a former drug addict trying to capitalize on the weak minded and paranoid. Not good.
  • Re: marijuana and TCM

    Tue, March 3, 2009 - 1:55 PM
    We created Doctor Hemp to address this very concern. We see two major positions when it comes to Cannabis; either it is a harmful intoxicant that serves no useful purpose or it is a panacea, cure-all. The truth, as with most things, is somewhere in the middle. Doctor Hemp addresses known side-effects using traditional herbs and ancient wisdom. Might be worth trying along with moderated use, regular exercise and a careful eye on your experience. doctorhemp.com
    • Re: marijuana and TCM

      Thu, October 8, 2009 - 3:35 AM
      i would like to call someone at your company but can't seem to find any contact information on the website. Maybe it's there somewhere, but it's not obvious. What is your 800 number?

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